Friday, June 25, 2010

Natalie Wood cont.

As a teenager, I often wondered how Natalie mustered up the feelings of the heroines she played.  After all, she was rich and seemed to have everything.  I read a lot about the Stanislavsky Method Acting.  I couldn't understand it until I read Natasha by Suzanne Finstad.  First of all, since early childhood Natalie was supporting her family  -- a much younger half-sister; her stage mother, with all the trimmings and a stepfather who was a miserable alcoholic.  I read her mother told her never to gossip, as this would ruin her chances to make it in Hollywood.  At the age of 15, with Mud's (mother's nickname) approval, Natalie went out with Kirk Douglas; famed actor, producer and family man.  I don't think Natalie thought anything sexual would happen, but it did.  He threw her on a bed and forced her to have sex, saying, "I never had a teenager before."

When she got home that night, she informed Mud of what happened.  And over the years she confided in certain people, including Lana, Robert Blake and possibly Bette Davis.  Lana wants to wait until Douglas dies to announce to the world that he forcefully took her sister's virginity.  I plea to Lana, come out with it now.  When he dies people are going to throw bouquets at him, make him a hero.  No one will believe Lana.  Is she afraid of a lawsuit from him?  I wouldn't be.  Show the man for what he is.  People will say he can't defend himself  -- if he dies before she reveals it.

This rape has become well-known.  I, myself, do not fear a lawsuit.  Natalie came home and then went to the hospital for pain he inflicted.  I do not know how this was kept secret all these years.

Comments: Anonymous said...
Sure it was Kirk? I read "Natasha," by Susan Finstad, a few years ago, and for several pages I was convinced it was Kirk - but then the author dropped a reference to the rapist's "early pirate pictures," and Burt Lancaster, also not the nicest guy offscreen, came to mind. Where did you find Lana's ID of Kirk? --David Andrews (from EdForumJFK)

July 14, 2010 7:22 PM

The man who attacked Natalie Wood is still alive. That's the thing. Once he croaks and Lana comes out with it, no one is going to want to hear it. He'll have so many tributes. And there will be no consequences for him. Lana should report it now. What is she afraid of?
By Witness on Natalie Wood cont. on 7/18/10

42 comments:

  1. Sure it was Kirk? I read "Natasha," by Susan Finstad, a few years ago, and for several pages I was convinced it was Kirk - but then the author dropped a reference to the rapist's "early pirate pictures," and Burt Lancaster, also not the nicest guy offscreen, came to mind. Where did you find Lana's ID of Kirk? --David Andrews (from EdForumJFK)

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    1. 1958 The Vikings
      Einar
      1957 Paths of Glory
      Col. Dax
      1957 Gunfight at the O.K. Corral
      Doc Holliday
      1957 Top Secret Affair
      Maj. Gen. Melville A. Goodwin
      1956 Lust for Life
      Vincent Van Gogh
      1955 The Indian Fighter
      Johnny Hawks
      1955 Man Without a Star
      Dempsey Rae
      1955 The Racers
      Gino Borgesa
      1954 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
      Ned Land
      1954 The Jack Benny Program (TV Series)
      Kirk
      - The Jam Session Show (1954) ... Kirk
      1954 Ulysses

      Come again? Three alone before "Spartacus".

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  2. The man who attacked Natalie Wood is still alive. That's the thing. Once he croaks and Lana comes out with it, no one is going to want to hear it. He'll have so many tributes. And there will be no consequences for him. Lana should report it now. What is she afraid of?

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    1. Here's an example: my grandfather, a descendant of "Katarzyna" Danilowicz Czerniecki, called the Luzerne County, PA prosecutor when I identified my aunt as the primary witness re his mother's death. He also called my then-uncle Dale to yell at him at work. Meanwhile, my father talked about how my grandfather (according to him) loved his granddaughter enough to not file a defamation lawsuit against her.

      Imagine, then, why Lana Wood might be afraid. Since standing up to Jack Czarnecki was hard (and my aunt asked me to not pursue the case any further), I can imagine why Lana Wood might be afraid of Kirk Douglas.

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  3. At the time the book was published there were only three possibilities: Kirk Douglas, Burt Lancaster & Tony Curtis. Natalie said she would never appear or associate with her rapist so that rules out Curtis (made a movie together) and Lancaster (appeared at the 1971 Oscars together & he was carrying her on-stage & she seemed genuinely fond of him). So that leaves only one....

    Also I dispute Lancaster being 'not the nicest guy'. I always heard he was a true gentleman.

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    1. She refused to work with Kirk Douglas for "personal reasons".

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    3. Here's probably the only footage of Natalie Wood and Kirk Douglas. It's creepy how he hovers over her:
      https://youtu.be/R8BXvOX_PDU?t=1m16s

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  4. If the rapist made pirate pictures then he was not Kirk Douglas.

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    1. Look at the list that I copied from IMDB.

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    2. Actually, Douglas did make a few pirate movies, such as "Light at the End of the World," in which he battled pirates, and "Scalawag," a half-assed "Treasure Island" ripoff in which he played a peg-legged, Long John Silveresque pirate in search of a treasure. These weren't technically "early pictures" for Douglas (they were made in '71/'73 respectively), however they were definitely pirate movies, both of which were made while Natalie was still alive. Douglas made so many movies, Natalie (or the author) might be forgiven for being a little fuzzy on the chronology.

      As I read the graphic details of Natalie's rape, the one detail that jumped out at me in flashing neon was that Douglas had allegedly spat on her during the assaults. Douglas's own autobiography, "The Ragman's Son," relates a consensual sexual encounter in which he very roughly used the woman and humiliated her by spitting on her.

      So, it's all there. The pirate movies, the sex as "punishment," and the spitting on the woman.

      I don't see how it could be anyone but Douglas.

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  5. Burt Lancaster did make a pirate movie, The Crimson Pirate. Errol Flynn was the screen's most famous pirate and his "early pirate pictures" were in the 1930's and early 1940's - mainly, Captain Blood. However, Errol Flynn certainly had teenagers before.

    I don't think the author would have thrown a hint in there about pirate pictures if the actor hadn't made at least one, so I don't believe it was Kirk Douglas who was being referred to.

    Also, from what I remember, the story was that this "famous actor-producer" was interviewing Natalie for a part in a film. Kirk Douglas didn't produce a film until 1957 - Paths Of Glory - when Natalie was about 18 - and there was no part in Paths Of Glory (an almost all-male World War I film) for Natalie. The next film he actually produced was Spartacus - in 1960, when Natalie was 21.

    Burt Lancaster, on the other hand, was an actor-producer in the time frame of the rape. He was one of the first of the star producers of the 1950s. His well-known production company was Hecht-Hill-Lancaster, they produced the film, Marty, in 1955, for ex. He appeared in several "swashbuckler" or adventure-film roles in his early career - The Crimson Pirate, The Flame And The Arrow, His Majesty O'Keefe, Ten Tall Men.

    I'm not trying to pin it on him, he just fits the description better. When I read the description in the book, I immediately thought of him.

    Only thing is, he died back in the 80's, yet Lana Wood did not identify him as the culprit.

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    1. It was Kirk Douglas. Incidentally, I have to wonder how he keeps living. Maybe God won't let him die until he admits it.

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    2. Maybe Kirk is dead and it is not being reported.

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    3. He isn't, unless you know something that few others and nobody else does. He's going to be 100 in December, though whether that's here or in the hereafter is up to God.

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    4. Frankly, I always believed it was someone else, the "legend" and none of the aforementioned men were really "legends" at that time. I believed all the time it was Gary Cooper. He fits the profile to a tee!

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    5. Gary Cooper died. Kirk Douglas is still kicking.

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  6. I believe it was Kirk Douglas and even though Natalie was not a virgin at the time she was allegedly raped, as she had already had a number of affairs, Nicholas Ray, director of Rebel, it absolutely doesn't excuse what he did and if it's true, the event scarred her for life. I hope this comes out once he dies as I would hate to have this rapist get away with it altogether.

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  7. not early in his career, but later in the early 70's, douglas was in scalawag.

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  8. Apparently he has a famous son...maybe Michael Douglas?
    Also google Hmmm...apparently Natasha Wagner told Robert Downey Jr about it at some point. Also, google Jean Spangler. Kirk Douglas has some creepy stuff connected to him.

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    1. Sadly, it's called being a Danilovich. You either are (as some would say) crazy or attract crazy. As the descendant of a Danilovich, I know.

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  9. I have a lot of respect for Kirk douglas and many other actors of his genre, but if that was true Id lose all the respect for him for sure. Hope its not true.

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    1. Daniloviches can fool people. As a distant family member, I am warning you about that. When someone asked if I'm related, I said "No" because I did not realize that Danilovich was not a patronymic. After I saw pictures of him and realized the family resemblance, I figured that I should've known that we're related.

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  10. I am reading the book "Natasha" by Susan Finstad and I cannot tell you how disturbing it was to read that part about Natalie being raped. Has anyone found any reponse from Kirk Douglas? You would think he would deny it or address the issue.

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    1. Daniloviches don't address issues unless they have to do so, and look at how he handled the Jean Spangler issue.

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  11. Kirk Douglas starred as a Scandinavian pirate in the c. 1957 film The Vikings.

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  12. As I said when they reopened the Robert Wagner case, they could reinvestigate the Kirk Douglas case as well. Besides, look at Ailes and Cosby decades down the road. Also as I said, I came to find out that, that YouTube user who asked if we were related was right. I should've known, and I'm ashamed of what all sides of that family have afflicted on the world.

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  13. It is such a shame that famous people get away with deplorable things. Then, they get honored with accolades once they die. What he did to poor Natalie Wood is despicable. I guess he will just have to pay the piper when he finally dies. Poor woman, controlled by her awful stage mother, then abused by men and probably murdered.

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    1. It's less that and more being a Danilovich. I'm telling you, we get away with awful ****; or we stand up and get **** in turn.

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  14. I just wonder what people are going to do when they find out the hard way that Kirk Douglas did rape Natalie Wood, whether or not he actually makes 100 tomorrow. Some will be denial, and some will attack Lana Wood and others. But the others? They'll have parts of their worlds crashing down on them.

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    1. What is a Danilovich? I hope it is not too stupid of a question.

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    2. It's not. That was originally Kirk Douglas' family name. Unfortunately, he is somehow related to my paternal grandfather (Jack Czarnecki)'s paternal grandfather (Julian Czerniecki), whose mother was a Danilowicz (Danilovich).

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  15. Straight up: you have zero proof that Douglas did this. Zero. Hearsay, at best. Too bad he doesn't sue you for defamation.

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    1. The rumor has been around for decades and he hasn't sued. Why? Natalie Wood refused to work with him for "personal reasons" (per IMDB). Why? Lana Wood won't name the man whom raped Natalie. Why?

      Nice try, though: the only reason that I thank God that I'm related to Kirk Douglas is so that I can flush out Danilovich ******** when I see it, hear it and hear about it, etc..

      It would't surprise me if we're related, by the way: I've seen enough on my side of the family to not be surprised if you are a Danilovich.

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    2. Sorry, not related to you. Just a poster.

      And again: what you list as "proof," isn't proof. Proof would be a confession by Douglas, a statement in a court of law or a legal deposition by Wood, and/or a witness to the actual event. You've got rumors and supposition and guesses. That's it. You can justify your obsession any way you like, and that's cool...but you have zero proof.

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  16. I often wonder if Douglas returning to his Jewish roots after spending decades avoiding them was a catharsis of many evil doings in his life.Natalie even seemed to resemble women in his life and don't forget,they were both Russian.I suggest that he was obsessed.he was in a navy movie where he raped a fellow soldier's wife on the beach.Check it out-his demeanor is chilling!

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    1. The movie with the chilling Kirk Douglas rape scene is a John Wayne 1965 movie called In Harm's Way and can be seen on YouTube.Art imitating life?

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    2. She was actually Ukrainian Jewish (Look for "Zakharenko" in the Ukraine and US databases on JewishGen.), he Belorussian-American Jewish (His dad's branch ended up in Chausy; my great-four-time-grandfather Abram "Wojciech" Danilowicz's branch in Krasne w Krasnopol and Lipsk in Borisov uyezd, both subsequently part of Suwalki Gubernia, Bialystok województwo, Suwalki województwo, and now Podlaskie województwo.).

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  17. Douglas was known as "the most hated man in Hollywood." Even in that den of iniquity, the rape and beating of Natalie Wood was unforgivable and, among other bad behaviors, earned him that accolade. I wish Lana would come forward now before this diaper-wearing old coot croaks and becomes the subject of accolades at the Oscars, retrospectives on his meaningless career, and whatever else Hollywood can conjure up.

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    1. I myself'd like to think that God is keeping Kirk Douglas alive until he confesses to raping Natalie Wood or until he thinks that he'll live to 120 and gets cut off in his arrogance. That's how it worked for my grandfather (a distant-enough cousin of his) only six years after his mother's horrid death and after he caused other pain to others (except for that, as far as I know, he never raped or otherwise sexually abused anyone; and he lived to be only 77).

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  18. What proof do you even have? Nothing proves this rape even happened let alone kirk did it. How come lana never went to the police or publicy annonce it? Lana is a stupid attention seeking bitch. A fuctional book is not evidence either.

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  19. I just watched a Natalie Wood documentary and Suzanne was talking about the rape. This was not a date she went on but a supposed audition for a part in the older actor's studio film. In watching Suzanne I saw the name Kirk Douglas in the background on a building. I also read that Kirk was suspected of murdering a woman years ago that he had gotten pregnant. I too thought it might be Burt Lancaster but I am glad it wasn't. Even though I heard he was a bully I always liked him, he was so handsome. As old as Kirk is I'm sure he won't care one way or the other about this incident that happened long ago. The sins shall be visited on the son.

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